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Post by cjm on Jan 1, 2020 19:52:32 GMT
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Post by Trog on Jan 2, 2020 7:37:14 GMT
No way back?
Hmmm. I don't agree.
The thing about the secular West is that it is phenomenally successful. It created a world for Europeans with plenty of food, protection, entertainment and shelter. It created a world where power is distributed in a multitude of ways throughout society, so that any one who desires power can obtain it in useful, non-destructive ways through competence, knowledge and hard work, instead of the only way towards power being through politics.
Should Western civilization persevere, I guess that it is indeed the case that there will be no way back for religion.
But I have become very skeptical of Western civilization's ability to persevere. I see massive problems developing in Europe and Northern America. In Europe, I would not be surprised to see them descending in chaos, within the next century or so. And if someone was to predict with 100% certainty another civil war within the US, within the next 200 years, I would not be surprised either, or at least it's collapse into several independent, autonomous political entities.
In times of crises, when all the certainties have evaporated, along with guaranteed food, protection, entertainment and shelter, religion assumes a profoundly different perspective.
It is easy to not believe in Gods when you are fat, lazy and replete with produce. In fact, it is not so much a question of belief, as that the question does not even arise. It becomes a different matter when you have to fight off 100 other people for any scrap of bread - which is probably coming to some European country near you, soon.
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Post by cjm on Jan 3, 2020 7:02:06 GMT
No way back? Hmmm. I don't agree. The thing about the secular West is that it is phenomenally successful. It created a world for Europeans with plenty of food, protection, entertainment and shelter. It created a world where power is distributed in a multitude of ways throughout society, so that any one who desires power can obtain it in useful, non-destructive ways through competence, knowledge and hard work, instead of the only way towards power being through politics. Should Western civilization persevere, I guess that it is indeed the case that there will be no way back for religion. But I have become very skeptical of Western civilization's ability to persevere. I see massive problems developing in Europe and Northern America. In Europe, I would not be surprised to see them descending in chaos, within the next century or so. And if someone was to predict with 100% certainty another civil war within the US, within the next 200 years, I would not be surprised either, or at least it's collapse into several independent, autonomous political entities. In times of crises, when all the certainties have evaporated, along with guaranteed food, protection, entertainment and shelter, religion assumes a profoundly different perspective. It is easy to not believe in Gods when you are fat, lazy and replete with produce. In fact, it is not so much a question of belief, as that the question does not even arise. It becomes a different matter when you have to fight off 100 other people for any scrap of bread - which is probably coming to some European country near you, soon.
The fact is that Christianity is present in every part of our daily life. Even the radicals with their obsessive regard for turning the other cheek and looking after the poor and downtrodden has as source the Christian belief. It might therefore, (following your line of thought) not be too difficult to reintroduce religion as there is not a dramatic clash of core values.
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