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Post by cjm on Feb 4, 2018 10:19:15 GMT
The following is a summary of a small part of Oppenheimer's Out of Africa book. Basically it is the result of my attempt to clarify the issues for myself as I find the book not an easy read. There are basically two waves, compiled from genetics, depicted here. Source and maps are from Out of Africa's Eden by Stephen Oppenheimer, Jonathan Ball, 2003. Page references are to the book. The older wave (say 50 000 years ago) is the gray path (p137). It accounts for people like the Basques and Eritreans (p138). The invasions of Europe in both cases were facilitated by the demise of an ice age and warmer, more lush conditions by two interstadials (pp 81 & 140). These interstadials made it easier to cross deserts to move up along the Zagros Mountains. The second wave occured about, say 33 000 years ago and is indicated by the black lines. Although occurring more or less in the same time frame, clearly there are multiple paths, sometimes joining. The black path along the Zagros mountains, indicated by HV, is based on more reliable genetics (p151). There is the possibility that the HV line, instead of moving up between the Caspian and Black Seas, went round the Black Sea on the right hand (p149). The first wave is bolstered by archeological evidence tagged as the Aurignacian Upper Palaeolithic culture, some 50 000 years ago. This is shown in more detail in the next map. The second wave can be tagged as the Gravettian culture. The innovations associated with this culture comprise mining, cave art, elaborate burials, large bone tool sets, the use of bone (particularly mammoth) for houses, and highly specialised mammoth hunting (p148). There was an earlier attempt to enter Europe from Africa about 100 000 years ago via the Suez and Levant (pp59-61). This attempt ended in failure as it left no genetic trace in the Levant. North Africa was populated from further east (p63) Aurignacian Upper Palaeolithic culture
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Post by cjm on Feb 4, 2018 12:32:02 GMT
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Post by cjm on Feb 4, 2018 17:24:11 GMT
The shrinking Neanderthal population (gone by about 30 000 years ago) : pp98-110
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Post by cjm on Feb 4, 2018 18:02:42 GMT
Around 20 000 years ago, Europe entered the Last Glacial Maximum (an ice age). The expanding Northern Ice drove the Europeans southwards to three main refuges. More detail can be found in the map below but in essence the three centres were in France/Spain (Basque country), Italy and the Ukraine. The huge Ukraine was marginally affected and human occupation even expanded there (pp 244-252). As the ice retreated around 16 000 years ago, the European population expanded again into areas from whence it fled. Europe was primarily repopulated by the existing genetic lines. Fresh imports from the East only dates from 8000 years ago and accounts for only 15% of modern lines (p252). Solutrean culture is identified by knapped stone "leaf points". The stone culture of the Epi-Gravettian can be contrasted with the former. (pp249-250).
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Post by cjm on Feb 5, 2018 5:28:22 GMT
From an earlier map (3.4) the genetic lines VH are indicated along the second wave. These maternal lines are very common in Europe and the following extract elaborates:
Oppenheimer: Out of Africa's Eden, pp145-146
...
The second daughter line, V, did not appear until much later, in south-West Europe. The H descendants were to provide half of all western and northern European maternal lines, Slav, Finn, and Germanic in particular. This is clearly different from the very early U5 story. The expansion of HV has been dated to around 33,500 years ago - over 15 ,000 years later than U5 , and 7,500 years before the next entrant. What is really interesting is that HV is considerably younger in the Near East ( 26,500 years) than in Europe (over 33,000 years), and much of her presence there may have been down to back-migration from Europe. This tends to rule out the Levant, Anatolia, and Bulgaria as homeland or source regions for HV, so we need to look for a route of entry into Europe for HV other than the Levant and Anatolia.
A team of Estonian geneticists led by Richard Villems and Toomas Kivisild, whose seminal mtDNA work has brought Indian Palaeo- lithic genetic prehistory to the fore, have much to say on the origins and spread of HV. They point out that the earliest roots of HV are found in South Asia (in north-west India and Kashmir, perhaps 40,000 years ago), but that the Trans-Caucasus was the site of her first West Eurasian blooming. The Estonian work has suggested that the region around the Caucasus Mountains locked between the Black Sea and the Caspian was the Palaeolithic genetic starting point for several important early European migrant maternal clans, of which the most important was HV.
To many people, myself included, the word ‘Caucasus’ conjures up images of fierce and independent peoples in the south-west ofthe former Soviet Union, a region whose famous mountain range, the Caucasus, gives us the name ‘Caucasian’ - which for some obscure reason is used to describe Europeans as a whole. A tight patchwork of Caucasian languages certainly bears out this sense of ancient diversity. Hemmed in by a mixture of Indo-European and Altaic languages to the north and south, the Caucasus has two unique and ancient language families of its own, North Caucasian and Kartvel- lian. The region, bounded on the west and east by two inland seas and spanned by the Caucasus Mountains, forms the only usable corridor between Armenia and Azerbaijan down in the Levant and European Russia to the north (see Figure 3.4).
Can the male Chromosome help any in tracing a second migration to Europe? To make up for the limited accuracy of dating with Y chromosomes, they are much more illuminating in their intra- regional specificity than mtDNA. Notable is an enigmatic male clan (see Figure 3.5) Which I shall call Inos, after Seth’s son Enos. Inos is almost exclusively European. According to the Leicester-based geneticist Zoe Rosser and colleagues, the relatively even distribution of this male clan indicates an early entry to Europe. Italian geneticist Ornella Semino and her colleagues from America are more specific, pointing out that the predominance of Inos in Ukraine and the Balkans suggests an association with the HV maternal clan and with the Gravettian culture. Like HV, Inos does not have a clear origin in the Levant, so a Trans-Caucasus route is a possibility.
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Post by Trog on Feb 6, 2018 14:39:10 GMT
Bearing in mind that, 30,000 years ago, almost everybody outside of Africa, including those who moved into Europe and Asia, probably looked something like this: Racial differentiation only really happened during the last ice age of 20,000 years ago. Prior to that, the people in Europe and Asia had a long way to go before they would become Indo-Europeans, or Basques, or Finns, or whatever. As for language, there certainly was nothing that resembled any of the languages later spoken by Indo-Europeans, or any of the other modern language families, in any possible way. In fact, there is some doubt if these people could actually speak at all.
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Post by cjm on Feb 6, 2018 20:12:29 GMT
Bearing in mind that, 30,000 years ago, almost everybody outside of Africa, including those who moved into Europe and Asia, probably looked something like this: Racial differentiation only really happened during the last ice age of 20,000 years ago. Prior to that, the people in Europe and Asia had a long way to go before they would become Indo-Europeans, or Basques, or Finns, or whatever. As for language, there certainly was nothing that resembled any of the languages later spoken by Indo-Europeans, or any of the other modern language families, in any possible way. In fact, there is some doubt if these people could actually speak at all. Oppenheimer pours scorn on the idea that the Europeans actually achieved anything. According to him, they benefitted from winning a lottery (chance). It seems to me that there has to be something more to their achievements.
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Post by Trog on Feb 8, 2018 6:29:03 GMT
Oppenheimer pours scorn on the idea that the Europeans actually achieved anything. According to him, they benefitted from winning a lottery (chance). It seems to me that there has to be something more to their achievements. The study of genetics is politically loaded, and those who practise it walk a fine line between being lauded and being hounded out of their careers. It is standard practice for them to spend about three quarters of everything they write in disclaiming any relation between genetics and human ability before they eventually get to making the point of what they are trying to write about. Oppenheimer makes no pronouncement on modern European art, culture, science, society, structure and so forth, and its merits as compared to other continents/parts of the world. What he does do, and seems to believe needs doing, is to argue that the people who emerged out of Africa about 80 thousand years ago were essentially Homo Sapiens Sapiens in every possible way.
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Post by cjm on Feb 9, 2018 7:22:58 GMT
Oppenheimer pours scorn on the idea that the Europeans actually achieved anything. According to him, they benefitted from winning a lottery (chance). It seems to me that there has to be something more to their achievements. The study of genetics is politically loaded, and those who practise it walk a fine line between being lauded and being hounded out of their careers. It is standard practice for them to spend about three quarters of everything they write in disclaiming any relation between genetics and human ability before they eventually get to making the point of what they are trying to write about. Oppenheimer makes no pronouncement on modern European art, culture, science, society, structure and so forth, and its merits as compared to other continents/parts of the world. What he does do, and seems to believe needs doing, is to argue that the people who emerged out of Africa about 80 thousand years ago were essentially Homo Sapiens Sapiens in every possible way. He does labour the point that all groups are equal. " inequalities of development and global power are more likely to the result of historical accidents of opportunity rather than of any innate intellectual differences between different populations" (p93). In fact, I read most of his book as a gloating manifesto to idea that Europeans are descended from "backwards" Africans. His preaching, political correctness and moralising drives me up the wall. Even Neanderthals are rehabilitated by him to be the equals of Cro Magnon man. Where he is dead wrong is that despite his repeated assertion that moderns did not interbreed with Neanderthals, it now transpires that they did. In fact, I am beginning to agree with Leakey that there is the possibility that Neanderthals were absorbed into modern man. A recent study also suggests that in the Caucasian mountains Neanderthals were incapable of crossing the mountains while our ancestors did. www.anth.uconn.edu/faculty/adler/assets/Publications/Bar-Yosef2006Anthro.pdfAs for speech, it seems that they could speak (how well, is a question). thehumanevolutionblog.com/2015/02/09/did-neanderthals-speak/Oppenheimer p92 phys.org/news/2013-07-neanderthals-speech-language-modern-humans.htmlIn fact, I am beging to wonder whether ancient languages like that of the Basque do not reflect the Neanderthal language. There are claims that they buried their dead, but that is subject to dispute. The burial of the dead seems to have originated with our European ancestors. That was rather a novelty. Neanderthals are only found in Eurasia and made extentive use of tools - Mousterian technology. They left cave "art". By and large, I think their significance is much more than is commonly imagined
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Post by Trog on Feb 9, 2018 12:06:57 GMT
He does labour the point that all groups are equal. " inequalities of development and global power are more likely to the result of historical accidents of opportunity rather than of any innate intellectual differences between different populations" (p93). That's just a weasel sentence. It has no meaning. What does inequalities of development mean? What does innate intellectual differences mean? He doesn't say. Not to mention that, irrespective of how he defines these (had he chosen to do so) innate intellectual differences could very well be (and almost certainly is) the result of historical accidents of opportunity. This is just Oppenheimer soothing the qualms of his leftist readers. We need to be careful with semantics, here. When we talk loosely of Africans we mean modern people living in Africa, of negroid or bantu descent. That is emphatically different from referring to someone who lived in Africa 200,000 years ago as an African. That all the people in the world are ultimately descendant from such an African is beyond dispute. That includes modern (i.e. today) Africans as much as anybody else, and in no way implies that non-Africans are descendant from modern day Africans. We had a common ancestor, in the same way we have a common ancestor with chimps and gorillas. All of us have moved on since then - some more successfully than others. I agree that he panders to a leftist audience. But when you remove the commercials, what remains is pretty solid.
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Post by cjm on Feb 11, 2018 8:49:31 GMT
He does labour the point that all groups are equal. " inequalities of development and global power are more likely to the result of historical accidents of opportunity rather than of any innate intellectual differences between different populations" (p93). That's just a weasel sentence. It has no meaning. What does inequalities of development mean? What does innate intellectual differences mean? He doesn't say. Not to mention that, irrespective of how he defines these (had he chosen to do so) innate intellectual differences could very well be (and almost certainly is) the result of historical accidents of opportunity. This is just Oppenheimer soothing the qualms of his leftist readers. We need to be careful with semantics, here. When we talk loosely of Africans we mean modern people living in Africa, of negroid or bantu descent. That is emphatically different from referring to someone who lived in Africa 200,000 years ago as an African. That all the people in the world are ultimately descendant from such an African is beyond dispute. That includes modern (i.e. today) Africans as much as anybody else, and in no way implies that non-Africans are descendant from modern day Africans. We had a common ancestor, in the same way we have a common ancestor with chimps and gorillas. All of us have moved on since then - some more successfully than others. I agree that he panders to a leftist audience. But when you remove the commercials, what remains is pretty solid. I may be mistaken about nuances but have no doubt that according to him all people are equal and that the pre-eminence of Europeans is a fluke, a happy accident of history, without any special ability on their part. I first place the quote in its fuller context: It will be noticed that he makes reference to Jared Diamond's book where these ideas are explained at great length in about 500 pages. The explanation, by the way, Jared gives for the successful conquest of the Americas by Europeans - see quote- is that the indigenous population was decimated by European germs, brought from Europe. The abilities of the Europeans accordingly had nothing to do with their success. Jared, incidently, gives a similar explanation, I seem to recall, for the decimation of the KoiSan by the flu, in South Africa. The introduction to the chapter (2) where this quote comes from, also makes Oppenheimer's intention and his line of thought quite clear: He makes no allowance at all for the possibility that the Europeans by means of culure, hard work or biology could have had some sort of innate advantage. It is all an accident, a fluke of history. All other groups, he argues, has exactly the same ability. He uses Jared's work to bolster this argument. He points out that tools, art etc found in other areas than Europe, in many cases are more modern or on par with that found in Europe. The ice age, he postulates, affected all groups equally &&. I am pretty sure he would argue that, in so far as the Europeans acquired a culture which facilitated their achievements, they were just lucky.
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Post by cjm on Feb 11, 2018 10:21:54 GMT
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Post by cjm on Feb 12, 2018 5:22:46 GMT
Although Oppenheimer claims at P104 that the interaction between Neanderthals and Europeans was negligible, this thesis seems more and more questionable. Of some interest also is that Asians have up to 30% more Neanderthal DNA in their genes than Europeans. Languages such as Basque, which coincide with concentrations of Neanderthals, may well reflect the remains of their language. Similar considerations are present with other non-Indo-European languages which emerged from East Asia.
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Post by cjm on Feb 12, 2018 18:15:40 GMT
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Post by cjm on Apr 8, 2018 8:23:03 GMT
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