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Post by cjm on Jul 24, 2017 7:32:29 GMT
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Post by Trog on Jul 24, 2017 7:52:01 GMT
China.
(As long as it is going to be cheaper to import something from China than it is to manufacture it here, de-industrialisation in South Africa is a given).
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Post by cjm on Jul 24, 2017 9:33:03 GMT
China. (As long as it is going to be cheaper to import something from China than it is to manufacture it here, de-industrialisation in South Africa is a given). That is a problem, is it not? It was actually easier during the sanctions period.
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Post by Trog on Jul 24, 2017 10:27:01 GMT
There has also been a profound change in the nature of manufactured goods, over the past 2 decades:
I totally refuse to buy anything manufactured in China, because the quality is absolutely shit. I'm usually prepared to pay as much as 10x more for something manufactured in Germany, for instance, because I know I'll be able to use it for the next 20 years, instead of just once.
But this is no longer a feasible point of view, in many instances. The rate of technological advances in consumer electronics is such that, whatever is available today, will almost certainly be improved by orders of magnitude in just 1 or 2 years. In that case, it makes no sense to pay for something with the quality that will last for 10 years, because you'll be throwing it away and replacing it within 2 years with something new anyway. And this is not just driven by a desire for trendiness - if I can get 40 MBits/s download speed with a new modem instead of 3 MBits/s, it is a real advantage.
In those situations, the clever and sensible design is precisely the one that lasts for 2 years, and no longer. But that calls for rapid development, rapid set up, rapid response to demands - which are things that Chinese manufacturers do well, but South Africans don't.
So, my guess is that the future of South African manufacturing is in the production of high-quality, mature-technology items where inherent durability is an asset.
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Post by cjm on Jul 24, 2017 11:02:36 GMT
Coming to think of it, we did make some heavy industrial stuff which are no more. In the 80's we even manufactured Alfas here, ADE diesel engines and although Denel is still going, I suspect that the production of arms related stuff was more than it is now. The shipping industry in Cape Town manufactured stainless steel tanks for the wine industry and others. We built our own locos. Even equipment for the mining industry was manufactured here. I seem to recall that we were regarded as quite advanced in that respect. It would also be interesting to see figures for Eskom power lines, transformers and the like. Perhaps the manufacturing costs were not that low, but still we must have been reasonably competitive.
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Post by Trog on Jul 24, 2017 12:21:52 GMT
Perhaps the manufacturing costs were not that low, but still we must have been reasonably competitive. Well, the SABS mark always, very rightfully, commanded respect, even if it was a bit unadventurous and staid. In general I perceived goods with an SABS mark as equivalent in quality with anything manufactured in Europe. It seems to have died an inglorious and silent death, for some reason. But during those years it was still cheaper to manufacture many things (most of which were not impacted by sanctions at all) in South Africa than to import it. These days, they cannot even breed chickens here at the same price as the imported stuff. As I said, I think the solution for us is to manufacture high-quality, mature-technology items, probably in highly automated facilities using a minimum of labour. Stuff like valves, armatures, transformers, gearboxes, pumps, whatever. Things one could make with locally produced steel and copper alloys. It is even difficult to find good quality hand-tools these days - hammers, screwdrivers, spanners, wrenches - maybe another possibility. But, as to the point if the quoted article - I don't think manufacturing will ever again be an intensive employer of labour in this country. Labour is just too expensive, involves too much risk. Those guys will just have to lie around doing nothing, I reckon.
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Post by cjm on Jul 24, 2017 16:39:50 GMT
... But, as to the point if the quoted article - I don't think manufacturing will ever again be an intensive employer of labour in this country. Labour is just too expensive, involves too much risk. Those guys will just have to lie around doing nothing, I reckon. Listening to how Americans justify shutting down rural areas (it is an inevitable consequence of automation, they say), we are in much the same boat then. In the society of the future a small number of people will work and the rest will fight about the redistribution of profits. I question the basic assumption about the level of automation. Take the internet: As far as I am concerned, its benefits are vastly exaggerated. It creates as many problems it solves and I have made peace with the fact that its security level is very low. Pigeon carriers are more secure.
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