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Post by cjm on Oct 9, 2022 8:34:38 GMT
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Post by Trog on Oct 10, 2022 6:00:34 GMT
The problem really is that desalinating seawater needs a lot of energy. A lot. So that desalinated seawater is very expensive. It is indeed much cheaper to treat grey water than to desalinate seawater. Maybe one solution that should be in the mix is to routinely install plumbing systems that keep grey water and black water separate, and divert grey water to treatment plants. As with solar electricity, this is something that could also devolve to a private household implementation. (Almost all the water we use for household purposes, maybe 95%, is easily recoverable for re-use).
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Post by cjm on Oct 10, 2022 7:59:56 GMT
The problem really is that desalinating seawater needs a lot of energy. A lot. So that desalinated seawater is very expensive. It is indeed much cheaper to treat grey water than to desalinate seawater. Maybe one solution that should be in the mix is to routinely install plumbing systems that keep grey water and black water separate, and divert grey water to treatment plants. As with solar electricity, this is something that could also devolve to a private household implementation. (Almost all the water we use for household purposes, maybe 95%, is easily recoverable for re-use). The Israelis provide desalinated water at $ 0.65 /1000 liter. That translates into $0.07 (0.065 to be precise)/ liter. In SA monetary denomination that is some R0.0126 /liter (assuming an exchange rate of R18/$), ie 1.26 c/liter The average water price in SA is some R13.00 per 1000 liter. That is 1.3 cents/liter. 1.3>1.26 Are the calculations correct?
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Post by Trog on Oct 10, 2022 8:58:54 GMT
The Israelis provide desalinated water at $ 0.65 /1000 liter. That translates into $0.07 (0.065 to be precise)/ liter. In SA monetary denomination that is some R0.0126 /liter (assuming an exchange rate of R18/$), ie 1.26 c/liter The average water price in SA is some R13.00 per 1000 liter. That is 1.3 cents/liter. 1.3>1.26 Are the calculations correct? Well, $ 0.65 /1000 liter actually works out to $0.00065 / liter, (2 zeros missing, I'm guessing you meant to say 0.00065c / liter?) but the eventual result is correct, i.e. Israel produces desalinated water at the equivalent of SA 1.26 c/l. (Or 1.17c per liter, to be pedantic, assuming R18 to a dollar). But it is wrong to compare that to an average water price of 1.3 c/l in South Africa, because that is the price of delivering water to your home in South Africa (1), not the cost of producing potable water, which in South Africa is almost nothing at all. You should actually compare the cost of producing one liter of potable water through desalination, 1.26 cents per liter, to something that is virtually free. (Some sedimentation dams, some sand filters and chlorination). (1) Which includes the creation and maintenance of all its supply chain, taxes, cuts and kickbacks to local authority politicians, etc.
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Post by cjm on Oct 10, 2022 9:45:07 GMT
The Israelis provide desalinated water at $ 0.65 /1000 liter. That translates into $0.07 (0.065 to be precise)/ liter. In SA monetary denomination that is some R0.0126 /liter (assuming an exchange rate of R18/$), ie 1.26 c/liter The average water price in SA is some R13.00 per 1000 liter. That is 1.3 cents/liter. 1.3>1.26 Are the calculations correct? Well, $ 0.65 /1000 liter actually works out to $0.00065 / liter, (2 zeros missing, I'm guessing you meant to say 0.00065c / liter?) but the eventual result is correct, i.e. Israel produces desalinated water at the equivalent of SA 1.26 c/l. (Or 1.17c per liter, to be pedantic, assuming R18 to a dollar). But it is wrong to compare that to an average water price of 1.3 c/l in South Africa, because that is the price of delivering water to your home in South Africa (1), not the cost of producing potable water, which in South Africa is almost nothing at all. You should actually compare the cost of producing one liter of potable water through desalination, 1.26 cents per liter, to something that is virtually free. (Some sedimentation dams, some sand filters and chlorination). (1) Which includes the creation and maintenance of all its supply chain, taxes, cuts and kickbacks to local authority politicians, etc. Thanks for the comments. Difficult to get up to date retail prices for water in Israel. It is further complicated by the fact that the water is a mix of desalinated water and natural sources. Still, natural sources should bring the price down. Anyway, a ball park figure would be NIS 7/1000 liter. A NIS is around $0.28. This takes it to $1.96/1000 liter, $0.001960/liter. In Rand then 4c/liter?
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Post by Trog on Oct 10, 2022 10:52:46 GMT
Difficult to get up to date retail prices for water in Israel. It is further complicated by the fact that the water is a mix of desalinated water and natural sources. Still, natural sources should bring the price down. Anyway, a ball park figure would be NIS 7/1000 liter. A NIS is around $0.28. This takes it to $1.96/1000 liter, $0.001960/liter. In Rand then 4c/liter? Yes, as you say, I think it is difficult to find any meaningful comparisons between water prices in Israel and South Africa without some very detailed analysis, in order to ensure that we are comparing apples with apples. But the bottom line is that desalination remains an extremely expensive operation, compared to basically al the other ways to potentially source potable water. It really should be the very last option to be considered. (Yes, if your facts are accurate, then 7 NIS per 1000 liters should work out to 4 SA cents a liter. 4c per liter is 208% more expensive than 1.3c per liter).
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Post by cjm on Oct 11, 2022 8:19:20 GMT
To the above mix one could add a comparison of GDP per Capita which would give an indication of relative ability to pay for the water: SA: $6994 and Israel: A staggering $ 54 690 (roughly 8X that of SA!!). I note that my water account works out at a little less than 2c/liter.
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